helvede.net is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the fediverse.
Velkommen til Helvede, fediversets hotteste instance! Vi er en queerfeministisk server, der shitposter i den 9. cirkel. Welcome to Hell, We’re a DK-based queerfeminist server. Read our server rules!

Server stats:

158
active users

#dxhr

0 posts0 participants0 posts today
Continued thread

So what happened is, after the Derelict Row Mission, I went back to the arms dealer to sell my excess loot. When I came back, the VTOL was stuck mid-landing animation, blocked off my invisible walls, and I can't get into it.

The Steam version of the Director's Cut doesn't have a cheat console either (that was present in earlier versions), so the game is just bricked. Several hours of save game wasted.

I really wish DXHR Director's Cut let you choose to skip the Missing Link DLC ._.

I know having a point two thirds through the game where you lose all your stuff is common (see: Half-Life with the garbage press, Half-Life 2 with the citadel), but DXHR's just... isn't fun.

Sure, you get all your gear back, but you have to re-spec extensively because all your skills are gone as well, and iirc I usually don't get enough back to spec back to where my build was beforehand.

It's just no fun. And the thinly-veiled loading screens don't help, either.

Continued thread

I slept through the next three-or-so hours of the dev commentary video, but they just keep talking about stuff they had to cut that sounds way cooler than the actual game.

Apparently, Detroit II was supposed to be a a rehab clinic in Utah where people get their augs removed and the anti-aug terrorists were supposed to use it as cover for their base.

Hengsha II was supposed to be Bangalore, and Hengsha I was supposed to have more Upper Hengsha to explore, including Belltower HQ.

I wanna play the game these people wanted to make!

Continued thread

Don't let my never-ending complaints deter you, btw. DXHR is a very fun game.

Its just unfortunately a very linear game with a story that doesn't allow for more than two or three branching paths (which immediately lead back to the main path). It's a poor Deus Ex game. By average gaming standards, it's perfectly good.

Continued thread

tbh it would be amazing to try to re-implement DXHR in the Source Engine (extensive modifications to the Source source code required) and add in all the stuff they hoped to make.

Or at least re-implement the Detroit hub, ditch a bunch of the RPG elements that don't translate to Source, and just make a faithful (to the geography and the spirit of the original plan) open world level with all the life and random encounters they hoped to make.

Continued thread

A few minutes later, one of the designers talked about how they had to scrap half the Detroit map on grounds of "we don't have the capacity to make this" and that's why Adam's posh apartment building is on the "drugs and prostitution" street and that that's "part of the concessions we have to make sometimes".

So far, about 50% of the last two hours of dev commentary has been about those concessions. About all the things they planned and then couldn't implement.

I want to play the game they were hoping to make :c

It's ironic that Francois Lapikas, one of the devs, gave a GDC talk where he went on about how they planned the entire game on paper from scratch and barely deviated from that plan, by way of explaining why some things weren't improved, but when you listen to the dev commentary, it's all about how they had initially planned a much better game and were forced to cut it down.

So apparently, the only way they deviated from that detailed plan was by cutting things that would have made the game better. Never by changing features for the better.

Following the Deus Ex: Human Revolution dev commentary further, it becomes apparent that the two main problems were:

  • the engine was garbage
  • the devs realised that making a complex game is a lot of work and backpedalled

I.e. one of the devs says the engine made it very hard to synchronise two NPCs performing an animation together outside of pre-rendered cutscenes.

Something that Half-Life ² did very well ten years earlier.

And that's on top of all in-game animations in DXHR being incredibly janky and unlifelike.

And they wanted to add random events that the player could intervene in, for some sort of morality system where actions have consequences, then realised it would be a lot of work to actually implement the consequences and they nixed the idea.

🤦‍♀️

Continued thread

If I may make a recommendation:

Deus Ex (GOTY Edition) for pennies,
Deus Ex: Human Revolution for 3 bucks (good game, but the price is only fair given 10 years and all of that wasted potential),
Deux Ex: Mankind Divided (7€, improves a lot on Human Revolution and is a truer immersive sim, though you can tell the next planned instalment was never made).

For a little over 10€, that's 50–200 hours (depending on if you only do main objectives or go for a reasonable ~90% playthrough) of fun. Can only recommend it.

(bla bla am not getting paid this is no sponsorship yadda yadda)

#GOG#DeusEx#DXHR
Continued thread

From: Why Care About Player Agency? by RoSoDude Modding

Speaking for myself, I strongly value the sense that I am carving out my own experience in a game. If I am fundamentally performing the same sequence of actions as any another player with negligible differentiation, I’m not likely to be very interested in a game, regardless of its other experiential qualities.

That really sums it up.

In F:NV, other players are going to make different choices. The answer to the moral questions the game poses differ depending on how much emphasis the player places on truthfulness vs. greater good, community vs. individual, flawed organised government vs. the fight for a better form of governance at risk of getting neither.

Even in trivial quests, like "My Kind of Town", who different players prefer as Sherrif will vary. Should it be the robot, who has no sense of nuance, but is incorruptible? The very gung-ho former sherrif turned felon, who took frontier justice a little too far, but who's got a good grasp of right and wrong (mostly)? Or should it be the army, who will incorporate the town into an expanding nation, with all the benefits, but all the downsides as well, trading independence for safety?

If you take four quests – "The White Wash", "Hard Luck Blues", "Come Fly With Me", and "My Kind of Town", you end up with over a hundred permutations if you consider all the relevant choices in those quests. You can throw a stone at a group of players and no two of them will have made exactly the same choices.

In Deus Ex: Human Revolution, there are probably fewer important choices in the entire game than in New Vegas in a handful of quests. Every DXHR player has played the game the exact same way. The ways the story can branch are limited to "did you kill that guy and he can't give you info later", "did you save that hostage", and "did you get that upgrade".

You can't compare side quests with your fellow players, because at no point do you have to decide between doing side quest A or side quest B, and all the ones you do are identical between players, save for how their sneaking-to-shooting ratio was.

It feels like being walked on a leash, and not in a good way.

RSD's Mods and Tweaks · Why Care About Player Agency?Several months ago, there was a discussion on my Discord server centered around this great article detailing the 6 main subcultures of tabletop roleplaying, as one user took note of the similarity …

I'm watching a video called " Deus Ex: Human Revolution: The Savior of the Immersive Sim" and it ticks me off so badly because ultimately, Human Revolution isn't an immersive sim.

Every quest has one way to solve it. Sometimes two, though usually that's the developers pretending there's two, like "talk to the guy or read his emails".

Every solution is clearly defined by the developers. There is no room for creativity. The most you can hope for is things the developers implemented to make you feel creative, like shutting down an antenna before the game tells you to, or how you can drag unconscious guards through checkpoints and the computer will recognise their identity.

An immersive sim is systemic and has emergent gameplay, meaning you can combine stuff in unexpected ways because the game simulates the real world. There is nothing of the sort in DXHR because it doesn't simulate anything. Props and the world are static and unchangeable.

In the original Deus Ex, people discovered that luring secret agents in front of a locked door and killing them would cause their explode-upon-death device to blow open that door. In the first map, you could stack props to climb up the map and skip 90% of the enemies.

DXHR, by comparison, is full of invisible walls that guide you into a narrow corridor of officially sanctioned gameplay. That metal gate you found? You can't blow it down. The only way to open it is to hack it. That apartment you're not supposed to enter until later? The door can withstand any force, and the electronic lock is unhackable right until it suddenly isn't.

Seeing people praise DXHR as an immersive sim, and the few peanuts of "look how smart you can be! we put in an unorthodox solution for you!" as "emergent gameplay", is just insulting.

Continued thread

Compare that to a game like Fallout: New Vegas. Side quests – quests that are not directly related to the main storyline – in that game are often absurdly detailed and involve making actual decisions and finding stuff yourself.

"The White Wash" can turn out any of a handful of ways, all of them validly complete the quest, and you get to make moral choices in the process that affect your standing with multiple factions.

"Hard Luck Blues" requires you to findyour way (because the in-game maps are useless) in an underground facility and make a decision between the wellbeing of the many or the lives of the few.

"Come Fly With Me" has several approaches, from just wantonly killing a bunch of people and being done with it, to trying to find a peaceful solution for two groups group by killing another, to trying to find a peaceful solution for all three. You can be too hasty and commit multiple small genocides, or you can put in way more effort than the quest giver demands and save several dozen lives, and perhaps make a few individual lives better. You need to think and decide on your approach. And here, the choice between sneaking, killing, and talking is not about how you approach one and the same objective – it's about which objective you want in the first place. Because the task is not "get this item", the task is "resolve a volatile situation between three hostile factions", and you get to decide if that means mass murder or negotiations.

DXHR doesn't even come close to that kind of complexity. It doesn't have any complexity. It just has "go here and do the thing", and it's up to you how much you kill on the way there. And when you do, it's completely inconsequential if you left a trail of bodies in your wake, because aside from a few comments from NPCs, it has zero effect on the story.

Continued thread

Oh and also, what counts as a side quest – sorry, "side mission" – in this game is absurd.

Just in the first Detroit level, there are ostensibly seven side quests. That's pretty good, right?

Well.

No.

These quests are:

  • Paging Adam Jensen
  • Lesser Evils
  • One Good Turn Deserves Another
  • Motherly Ties
  • Cloak & Daggers
  • Voices from the Dark
  • Acquaintances Forgotten (Part 1)

But these are not side quests, for the most part.

"Paging Adam Jensen" involves a "Adam Jensen, please report to your office" PA. Once you go there and talk to a guy, the quest is completed and he gives you the actual quest, "Lesser Evils".

"One Good Turn Deserves Another" involves going to an apartment, letting two people say "thanks" to you, and henceforth you get a discount at one shop.

"Motherly Ties", "Lesser Evils", and "Cloak & Daggers" are actual side quests, though for the reasons mentioned above, they're pretty boring.

"Voices from the Dark" involves getting a message to go somewhere, a guy says "thank you", and gives you some information.

"Acquaintances Forgotten" (Part 1) involves doing a dialogue battle with someone and reading a bunch of emails (and by reading I mean "open them for a fraction of a second so the game considers them read"), so I guess you're at least doing the dialogue battle.

But you see what I mean?

"Paging Adam Jensen" just pretends that "Lesser Evils" is two side quests instead of one. "One Good Turn […]" and "Voices […]" are literally just "go here, ok done" and don't involve any work other than walking.

So as far as actually getting to do anything goes, there are three side quests in that map.

In total, DLC included, the game has 12 side quests, but pretends they're 18 quests instead. And with very few exceptions (C&D, MT, AF) they're just "go here, kill/hack/get that, done".